turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Talk:Jeb Stuart Jr.
Anyone else ever think how lame it was that Featherston forgot to sack Stuart for the first half of his term until Potter showed up at the Olympics and reminded him? I had assumed that was the first thing he did on taking office. That was actually the first time I read a badly written scene in this series and said "Christ, that's stupid." Well maybe not the first one, but in retrospect it does seem to have been writing on the wall. Turtle Fan 04:34, October 19, 2009 (UTC) :I don't recall. I was under the impression that Featherston was just letting Stuart dangle out of sadism. TR 04:50, October 19, 2009 (UTC) ::After he meets with Potter during the Olympics he says something like "That reminds me of something I'd forgotten about. . . . " Turtle Fan 10:32, October 19, 2009 (UTC) :"Forgot"? Yes, lame. However I don't think it would have been politically wise to have sacked him first thing after inauguration. He had an agenda to establish, first. Jelay14 07:16, October 19, 2009 (UTC) ::Maybe, but I'd still look for it to be taken care of quickly. Turtle Fan 10:32, October 19, 2009 (UTC) Removal from Historical Figures Well, I went ahead and demoted him out of historicals. I can't decide if HT blundered or if he really had some plan in mind and forgot to tell us. Either way, I don't think we can call HT's version historical. I also wholesale stole an article from the main wikipedia. TR 02:10, November 30, 2009 (UTC) :I was wondering where the huge-ass edit came from--I didn't have time to read it all but it seemed like addition of various story information. We've really got a lot of woefully inadequate character articles, don't we? :If we don't have enough to say Jeb Jr is historical, do we have enough to say he's fictional? There's nothing definitively suggesting HT was aware of getting the historical wrong. Turtle Fan 04:44, November 30, 2009 (UTC) :::Only the fact that HT very pointedly told us that Jr was 17 in HFR. At the very minimum, HT wanted us to know that. TR 15:51, November 30, 2009 (UTC) ::::But as you say it's not clear whether this was a research mistake or intended to be a new young Jeb. And it's not really a hard and fast reference--Jackson and EPA hear the name "Stuart" in a report, and one of them says "Think it's Jeb's son?" and the other one says "Maybe--He's, what, seventeen now?" It's not unusual for people not to know the exact age of casual acquaintances' children. It would be no more out of place than Lincoln saying Blackford was "20 or 21" (born in 1860 or 1861 or maybe early 1862) and then Blackford saying he was born after the war, but just barely. There's also the "I'll turn 74 this year" bit, but Lincoln's misestimation of the age has long been, over my protests, discounted as playing a role in that controversy. :::::No, Junior himself shows up and tells EPA "I'm 17, sir." If it were just a matter of a third party getting the birthday wrong, there would be no issue. But this came right from the horse's mouth. TR 17:11, November 30, 2009 (UTC) ::::::Really? If you say so--I don't feel like rereading HFR just for that. Turtle Fan 17:22, November 30, 2009 (UTC) :::::Glorious thing, the look inside this book feature is. TR 18:06, November 30, 2009 (UTC) ::::::Oh, yeah, that. I didn't feel like going there either, though. Turtle Fan 18:28, November 30, 2009 (UTC) ::::HT doesn't seem to have gotten quite as many historical figures' birthdates wrong as we had believed--Ophelia Clemens wasn't the real Mark Twain daughter we had initially assumed--but they're still out there. Trevithick, wasn't it? Turtle Fan 17:01, November 30, 2009 (UTC) :::::I still have no idea what to make of Trevithick, other than HT experimenting with butteflies. TR 17:11, November 30, 2009 (UTC) ::::::Ah, yes, butterflies. The trump card for lazy alternate historians. I've used it once or twice myself to smooth over prickly spots in scenarios I've been playing with, but always with a sense of embarrassment. Turtle Fan 17:22, November 30, 2009 (UTC) ::I know I've read here and there that there was a James Edward Brown Stuart Junior, and that he was born in 1864 just before or just after his old man's death at Yellow Tavern. I can't give an answer at the moment as to what these sources are, but I'm sure some internet sleuthing should come up with an answer. Jelay14 06:38, November 30, 2009 (UTC) :::Stuart's first son was renamed Jeb Stuart Junior, but that was 1861, well before the POD. TR 15:51, November 30, 2009 (UTC) :::James Ewell Brown Stuart Jr. Gotta love that Old South aristocracy--so many names they've got to refer to themselves as acronyms. Born 1860 as Philip Cooke Stuart, renamed in 1861 when Stuart and Cooke became estranged. Turtle Fan 17:01, November 30, 2009 (UTC) Historical? Thinking over how Trevithick is handled, I'm thinking it might be best to due the same for JEBS Jr., who is less blatant out of his time than Trevithick.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 03:45, December 7, 2015 (UTC) :Trevithick has the virtue of being born after the POD in ADF. Hand waving is possible. Jeb Jr doesn't have that luxury. There was a historical person before the POD. All of the textual information HT has provided suggests that this version was born after the POD. :If anything, I'd be more inclined to move our Trevithick to the fictional category. TR (talk) 16:16, December 7, 2015 (UTC) Jeb Stuart Jr. (Southern Victory) Maybe this article should be retitled to distinguish from the OTL man who was quite different.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 05:58, October 9, 2016 (UTC) :I don't know. The historical Jeb Jr appears to be lesser light, really. When I plugged his name into Google, our article here was the 2nd link, etc. I don't think anyone coming here will be confused. TR (talk) 07:03, October 9, 2016 (UTC) :Back when we were counting him as a historical and looking the other way on the DOB thing, I was always trying to get more biographical information on him. If memory serves, the closest he comes to having a claim to fame is that he was one of the founders of that group of descendants of Confederate veterans. :Anyway, I could go either way on Jonathan's suggestion. Turtle Fan (talk) 03:20, October 10, 2016 (UTC)